So, Dean is really cooking in his co-dependency, isn’t he? First, Cas leaves and he doesn’t know when he’ll see him again. Charlie chooses to leave and he doesn’t know if he’ll ever see her again.
But Sam — Sam, Dean refused to allow leave, removing his agency. Can’t let Cas stay, can’t let Sam leave. Charlie, otoh, gets to make her own choice (but chooses to leave).
Zeke saves Sam from death in 9x01. Saves the day in 9x02. Resurrects Cas in 9x03. Resurrects Charlie in 9x04. That’s a lot of saving in a short time.
The Charlie/Dean death scene mirroring the Cas/Dean death scene, similar to how Dean’s speech about family to Kevin borrowed elements of his speech to Cas re: family in 8x17. Is this meant to show Cas as the same as Charlie and Kevin or is it meant to contrast? Are the deaths even meant to reflect on the individual relationships or is it more meant to be about the Sam/Zeke/Dean plot and about connecting that to Dean refusing to let his family die on him?
Charlie and Dorothy both pinnacle of awesome & I bet they’ll have tons of fun in Oz together. Great to see them working together to beat the Wicked Witch.
I am so confused about the parallel scenes. I mean, if they are meant to “no homo” the intense moments with Dean/Cas that came earlier, well… 8x17 was a while back and I think their intentions for canon have maybe/likely changed since then, so I could see doing a little erasing (for the Kevin one). But the Cas death scene was literally last episode? Like, why play it so intense at all if you were going to platonicize it right after? I just don’t understand what’s going on right now and whether we’re supposed to see them as the same or contrasting in some subtle but important way. ::sigh::
Exactly. The Cas scene just happened last episode, so… is it supposed to read differently or the same? It reads differently to me but is that because of me or because of the show or because of Jensen’s acting but the intention was for it to read the same?
I’m thinking this is where B# comes into play. Quite possibly what Adam Glass was getting at. They seem the same because they could be the same, but if you want to recognize it as different, you can? That’s what I got from that, anyway.
The main problem there is that they really screwed themselves over by making 9x03 the “human!Cas is straight, straight, STRAIGHT!” show because now any ambiguity just feels like we’re being fucked with on something they never intend on following through (aka queerbaiting). Ugh. Makes my head hurt to think about.
I honestly think that (and man, I’ve been losing followers left and right, but I HAVE to be objective about this) they’ve come to a point where they realized that they needed to, pardon the expression but, “shit or get off the pot”. They chose to get off the pot. I feel like they won’t deny anyone’s interpretations otherwise, but they are definitely moving in a platonic direction in a (horrendously misguided) attempt to stop the “queerbaiting” accusations. If they no longer put in queer subtext and “retcon” the fuck out of the existing subtext, they probably feel that no one can call them out on queerbaiting. NM the fact that what’s done is done.
This break we had a few things come forward that really pricked my ears. There was a fan report of Jensen saying his relationship with Cas would be “not bad, but different”. Then Adam Glass being super cagey on twitter. Add to that Jeremy Carver saying that we “may not like the decisions the characters make, but we will understand them”. I don’t know about anyone else, but I understand, all right.
Yeah, I’m not sure they realize they can’t actually undo S8? And people are going to continue to feel horribly betrayed? I mean, the thing is that I actually did restart watching the show because of Destiel. I quit near the beginning of S4 because the lady!hate and lady!dismissal was getting to me too much and I just couldn’t like the characters enough to continue. And then S8 reeled me back in because — what if? are they really? is this what it looks like? is the show really brave enough to actually take a risk on this? So, yeah, backtracking after S8 is probably going to continue to get them backlash because S8 was considerably more structurally romantic than the previous seasons and that was entirely their own fault. Giving people hope and then taking it away can feel considerably worse than never having hope at all.
If they genuinely had left 9x03 ‘up to interpretation’ — no leering boob shot, no hammering in of straight!Cas — idk if that would be better or not. It would make the current ambiguity feel a little less like scattering crumbs on the floor and telling us to lick them up if we really are so hungry, though.
See, I started watching the show because of Destiel last season. Most of my friends have, too. In fact, I’m gonna be so bold and say that was one of the main factors that really drew in a significant portion of fandom.
What I don’t understand is why the show would crap on their main shipping fandom. Makes literally no sense to me. Though I suppose they feel they can risk us leaving, because they’ve got what they want. But honestly, I’ve been saying this for a while. Show, don’t string us along. I’m at least glad they’re being clear, even if they have alienated a group of people and shown some truly incredible douchebaggery in the process. I think the biggest issue here is the PR. This show is perfectly awful at being considerate to their fans. I’m sure a statement would have been the best way to go about this, or at least if they let us know that they hear our complaints. My problem was not the fact that they chose to go in a different direction, it’s the way the went about it followed by the fact that no one made a move to shut up the crew members who were being (frankly) disgusting towards fans. Don’t even get me started on the whole support of a bi character “if it serves the story” bullshit that Kennedy wrote.
Then again, I’m also not surprised considering the treatment the Wincest shippers got (dismissal followed by “THAT’S JUST SICK” followed by a character made of pure crazy). Just sitting back and waiting for our own problematic shipper character. I’m sure she’ll be a doozy.